black diamond viper vs petzl quark


Finally, we tested the Quark on moderate to steep ice to see how they compare with other tools on the same climbs and they climbed reasonably well. One the Black Diamond Viper, which is also a very good tool, and about the same price, about 140 Euro. Blue Ice have also started making an Alu/Steel screw which looks really interesting. The latest innovation in ice screws is the use of aluminium shafts with a stainless-steel tip, this saves a lot of weight which, if added up across a whole rack, can be a significant saving. That being said, Ive also used it on steep WI4 water ice, and found it a bit hard to use. Better than the vipers for sure. I think Allied Petzl will still sell them on demand, if you cant jugaad them from abroad. They can be difficult to remove but if they are that difficult to remove they were probably quite a good runner. All in all, the Petzl Quark is a great tool, and if you can get your hands on a pair (even temporarily), go for it. One last thought: how much mixed are you going to be doing? So, my wife has decided to start ice climbing again and since I gave away my ice tools and have been using hers the last couple of years that means I need a new pair. An excellent simple double leash from Grivel, delivered without karabiners but Im sure you have plenty at home, there is no spinner system, so you have to be careful not to end up in a mess, but they are cheaper than any other model. The curved shaft makes the tool easier to use in the cane position vs double handled tools. These sprung pieces of webbing are surprisingly easy to get used to, they can be attached to the front of the harness then clipped to the bottom of the shaft. Which would you recommend for winter climbing up to VI ish and alpine use as well up to ED1 ish being used with or without leashes? Honestly, it all comes down to the feel - Vipers are far more head-heavy, which makes them penetrate ice with less force, but are a little less precise than the Quarks. The main reason behind this has always been that its historically been near impossible to find high quality, technical climbing gear in India. DMM Rebels? I recommend seeing if you can try one of each out before using it, just to get a better feel. The Switch is DMMs most technical tool incorporating a more ergonomic shaped handgrip than the Apex. Quark or Viper. Givels Machine line of tools do share picks and hammer/adze accessories, but also do not have a pick weight option. However, if Petzl added it we figured that there was a reason and we will test it out. Cheaper alternatives too, are available. (I have used various leashless tools for dry tool cragging, but never in the alpine or on waterfall routes). The tools come in a hammer or adze version, but these accessory are replaceable, even with the smaller hammer Mini Marteu. The Quarks niche is supposed to be fast and light mountaineering, and the tools are definitely feel light in hand. What really works for me is the weight and the profile. The Quark has stood the test of time and is a superb all-round tool perfect for Scottish winter when the adjustable Grip rest will make topping out in soft snow or over a cornice much more secure, I would just like Petzl to make a bigger hammer and adze to improve functionality on the mountains. Its too short to be used on flat ground, though, unless youre a short person. Change). When swinging the tool into ice, sometimes the pommel is the first thing to strike the ice. We am not sure if this is something that Petzl experienced in their product development but adding extra mechanical mechanisms that arent needed is only introducing something that can fail at some point. A really nice system from Petzl using a swivel system like the Black Diamond Spinner the only real difference is that Petzl use wire gate snap link krabs. The tool comes complete with a two-stage grip, a good spike and a hole for a leash. Weighing in at 550 grams per tool with the hammer and adze they are just a bit lighter than the Black Diamond Vipers which weigh 570 grams. I lost one trigrest, and removed the other.The bottom of the tool has a spike (or ferrule), a fairly comfortable pommel which has a griprest, meaning you don't have to grip the tool hard when you pull on it. One of my Quarks has an adze equipped, which in invaluable in clearing snow to place screws. That being said, my friend Bharat Bhushan uses these, and I think he doesnt like my Quarks. Petzls pick system is compatible with the Sumtec, Quark, Nomic, and Ergonomic. In my experience, the trigger tends to get in the way and gets accidentally knocked upwards. If you want the pommel of your second grip to be just above your typical grip, the trigger is in between your fingers. Either one is fine for leashless. The trigrest also has a removable mini-trigger (thats the best way I can explain it), which also acts as a lock. The Quarks were brand new, the point and shoot camera was not. Tighten the bolt on the trigger a tiny bit and it will grip tight. The Apex is a great versatile tool, at home both on the steep icefalls and longer mountain test pieces. WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS. There are a few alternatives to the Quarks. It also doesnt have an Adze or a hammer though this is easily rectified by Petzls modular design. I used to have a pair of these to lend to clients for ice-climbing then found I kept using them myself, brilliant. We have since emailed the Petzl rep, and he has yet to get back to me. It's also on sale here. Decathlon, for a while, sold a tool called the Anaconda, which I quite liked. Gonna be very hard to find deals on the new Quarks. The folding handle on the 22cm ensures you will get the deepest possible V-thread placements. For classifieds, please use that forum. The pommel worked fine, it was a fixed pommel that didnt move so there was nothing to break or lose in order for it to function. Petzl Quarks? If you cant own one (because they certainly arent cheap), you can rent them for expeditions from the IMF in New Delhi (but, for some reason, they only have the Hammer version). IMO, they're similar enough (especially for your intended usage) that I would just go with whatever you find a good deal on first. There are some great deals out there on Vipers right now. Leash-less climbing allows you the freedom to swap tools and make moves with your hands and make it much easier to place protection both on ice and mixed terrain. I'm wary of the trigger. We can now have a look at the different options: A classic 12-point crampon this is as good as it gets when it comes to versatility in a crampon(coveredmore in-depth inWinter and Alpine Hardware Review Part 1: Classic Ice Axes and Crampons - click here). While that might be advantageous on some terrain for general use it's a pain. The swing feels fantastic. Im considering using them on a climb in the mountains to see how well they work. It also has a hydroformed shaft, so it is really comfortable to hold the shaft in different positions. I have narrowed down my choices to the Black Diamond Viper and the new version of the Petzl Quark. What happens when ice, dirt and sand gets into that mechanism? If you are going to be climbing more straight ice and mixed, and less alpine or mountaineering I would go with the Vipers. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Petzls trig-rest system allows the user to adjust where this second pommel sits on the tool, and even allows the user to move it higher on the shaft to keep it out of the way when the tool is being used as a cane. If you are going to make a V-thread then you will need a hook, you can use a bent wire coathanger, however, the Petzl Multihook is excellent and fits down the inside of an ice screw then with a bit of cord can be clipped into the carrying karabiner so you wont ever forget it. In the fast and light category, the Black Diamond Vipers seem to be the best choice for now. By The Cyborg is to Black Diamond as the G14 is to Grivel, a really solid crampon with adjustable vertically aligned front points. If you prefer pick weights on your tools for ice routes, Petzl also has compatible pick weights. What say the peanut gallery? The aggressive pick angle and T rated pick mean it can also be used on rock quite comfortably. I'm very happy with my Quarks. 2006-2021 SummitPost.org. Ive always struggled to write gear reviews. As we move into the vertical frozen world the shape of our tools becomes more critical to our security and ease of movement the shape will allow us to climb some incredible features that were not imaginable when I started winter climbing 30+ years ago. However, now that the pin is missing it can freely rotate closed. Why add a feature to accommodate such a specific situation, when that feature has the possibility to malfunction? Each print / digital issue and the website is packed with detailed coverage of key news, destination articles, interviews, gear reviews, Regular columnistsCaroline Ciavaldini and James Pearson, stunning photography, coaching and training. As youd expect from an extremely technical tool, the handgrip on the Switch felt very positive when things got very steep and the upper grip worked really well. Probably won't get a lot of first hand experience with the new Quarks. In the updated (2018 onwards) version, it folds in to make it easier to plunge into the snow. UKClimbing Limited. The idea is really simple, the different parts of the different models of Petzl crampon are interchangeable and probably the best and most useful example of this would be to take the Vasak which is their classic and brilliant 12-point mountaineering crampon suitable for all types of mountaineering and easier climbing. Can it freeze in place, or rust and break? On less steep terrain, it can be used as a piolet, with the ferrule plunged into the snow, even though it's a short, 50cm tool. A great axe which anyone putting themselves to the test in the mountains or on the steep ice should consider. After using a variety of climbing gear over the years, one thing Ive learned there is no such thing as perfect gear. Not much in disparity between the two. I would only consider a screw now with a fold-out handle as they are so much easier to use and faster to place. These tools feel really light from the off without stripping anything out, then if you are heading for a more mountaineering outing it is really easy to remove the adjustable trigger finger rest. Black Diamonds flicklock upper pommel does not have this issue. If you are focusing on steep water ice then you can strip out the hammer or adze to make a smaller head. I find they hook a little better and because they are heavier they go into hard ice much more easily. For mixed, the Nomic remains supreme. It works well on fairly high angled ice, as well as on lower angled, snowy terrain. (LogOut/ Hope you had a great 2021, and wish you the best for 2022 and beyond. The quark has a TRIGREST, a small, movable rest that allows you to grab the tool in the higher position. It isnt something that is going to injure a hand, but is something that is noticeable and irritating. It has to be one of the finest pieces of engineering I have seen in an ice tool. The viper will do just fine as a mountaineering tool and feel more comfortable on mixed terrain however. Climber magazine provides all you need to know about rock climbing - indoor and outdoor, mountaineering and bouldering. The swing and bite of the Apex are impressive and we soon found that positive single swing placements were easy making the climbing both efficient and confidence-inspiring. The shaft is slightly thicker than the other manufacturers so you could use it in existing holes, worth checking out. Swing them, try them. Cams you need to be really careful using cams in the winter, any ice inside a crack can cause the cam to slip out, if it is loaded this failure is immediate and catastrophic. Doesn't help, I'm from Europe. Ill let you know how that experiment goes. Speaking of versatility, the Quark has numerous accessories that can be used to make it better suited for your climb. I went with the Vipers purely because I found a pair on sale for $90.00 off of retail. There is a flick lock handle that can allow for adjustment of the trigger rest on the shaft, this is really nice but if you add grip tape to the shaft you have to accept a limited range of adjustment. I obviously haven't had a chance to get on any ice with the new Quarks. The hammer can be used for pitons, but the few times Ive used it, I found it a bit small. It has always seemed bizarre to me that we would have multiple pairs of crampons that essentially have the same back section but a different front then the front section would be worn out and the back section had lots of life left in it. While the Nomic and Ergonomic are better suited for steeper ice or mixed climbing, the Quarks are designed for technical mountaineering and low to medium angle ice climbing. Since I started climbing Water Ice some years ago, Ive found another set of Petzl tools I love Nomic. The handle has been reworked so the rubber moulding comes up the shaft to form the second/higher grip. The first time we pressed the button on tool #1, the spring and bolt that lock the pommel in place shot out of the tool and were never to be found again. When on the hill the Viper performs exceptionally well, it has a great swing and the Titan pick has a perfect balance of durability and stickability. A more steeply inclined pick will give greater security, a curved shaft will prevent you from bashing your knuckles and the shape will allow you to gain better placements on complicated ice formations.